How to calculate Meaties

What is the formula for calculating MEATY frame advantage? What things do you look for when doing this calculation?

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created Mar 12 '10 @ 23:46 by:

Suupa Saki
Rep: 231


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First, a definition of what a "meaty" attack is.

A meaty attack is one where the attack hits the opponent not on the first active frame of the attack (which is really the last startup frame) but at some point after.

As a result, the opponent starts "paying" in terms of hitstun and blockstun later than if they were hit with the first active frame of the move.

However, at the same time, your character is already finishing the active and recovery frames of his moves.

When there is the difference between the number of frames of hitstun or blockstun of your opponent and the number of active and recovery frames is positive, you are said to have frame advantage.

Let's take Boxer's frame data for the Far Light Punch: 

 

Move Startup Active Recover Frame Adv. Block Frame Adv. Hit Block stun Hit stun
Far Light Punch 4 2 4 +5 +8 10 13

 

(Note: there's more information than this, but this is the relevant part).

The general rule is when you hit the character with the first active frame (and are right next to them, since that's generally how you would achieve such a thing), you look at the "Frame Adv. Block" an "Frame Adv. Hit" to determine what the frame advantage is in order to determine link potental.

This assumption doesn't hold true when it comes to meaty attacks.  As stated above, meaty attacks are the result of hitting the opponent with an active frame other than the first.  As a result, the general rule goes out the window.

In order to actually hit a character with an active frame other than the first, you have a few options:

- After knockdown, attack the character early so that when they wake up and are able to block, you have already expended some of the active frames of your attack.

- Change the distance bewteen you and your opponent so that when your your attack hits your opponent, it is already in the active frames.  This is done either by your move projecting you towards your opponent, or your opponent being projected into the attack.  Examples of the former are Dictator's cr.HK slide & Cammy's Cannon Drill which can be spaced so as to touch the opponent at a point other than the first frame of animation.

At this point, you need one more piece of information, and that is whether you are trying to calculate frame advantage for a link, or frame advantage for a cancel/chain.

If you are trying to calculate frame advantage for a link, then you have to take into account the recovery time of the move, as you rely on the inherent frame advantage of the move in order to allow you to hit the opponent while they are still in hitstun, compensating for your recovery. In this case, the frame advantage range fromulas are:

 

link min hit stun

frame advantage

link max hit stun

frame advantage

link min block stun

frame advantage

link max block stun

frame advantage

hit stun - (1 + active + recover) hit stun - recover - 1 block stun - (1 + active + recover) block stun - recover - 1

 

In the case of a cancel/chain, after the active frame hits, the move will be cancelled (hence the term) and the startup for the move that you cancelled into will occur. This simplifies the calculation immensely, in that you only have to "pay" for the active frame that you connected with. Assuming that the timing is correct, that cost is one frame. The formulas in this case are:

 

cancel/chain hit stun

frame advantage

cancel/chain block stun

frame advantage

hit stun - 1 block stun - 1

 

In the specific case of Boxer's Far Light Punch (used as an example earlier) the formulas/results for frame advantage ranges for links are:

 

link min hit stun

frame advantage

link max hit stun

frame advantage

link min block stun

frame advantage

link max block stun

frame advantage

13 - (1 + 2 + 4) = 6 13 - 4 - 1 = 8 10 - (1 + 2 + 4) = 3 10 - 4 - 1 = 5

 

And the forumlas/results for frame advantage when using cancels/chains are:

 

cancel/chain hit stun

frame advantage

cancel/chain block stun

frame advantage

13 - 1 = 12 10 - 1 = 9

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created Mar 13 '10 @ 19:57 by:

casperOne ♦
Rep: 2159

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