Guile vs Zangief: How do you best use a charging char against grapplers?
I'm maining Guile, who - arguably - is deemed the 2nd worst char to play in SF4. I'm slowly learning to hold my own against Shotos and chargers, but have trouble beating grapplers such as Zangief because of the limited consecutive hits available in his arsenal of attacks. Most times, I'll get off 2-3 hits against the CPU before it finds the right frame to start grappling.
If there an effective way for Guile to handle Zangief or Abel (and eventually Hakan) when forced to fight close to him?
Responses (2 total)
To add to Casper's answer, you can try zoning him out with SB and if he jumps forward you have enough time to jump up and grab him with your awesome air grab or punish with crouching Fierce (I'd go with cr. Fierce, it's easy to do and oh so good). I'm not sure if you can punish with Flash Kick but you can try. If he resorts to using lariats to get through your Sonic Booms, let him him get within distance of your Flash Kick and use it while he's is still spinning. I think you can use forward standing Fierce to punish his lariat after the first spin. After you block a Green Hand you have a few options including throwing him, Flash Kick, and just jump away/neutral jump (most Giefs use SPD right after a whiffed/blocked Green Hand so try grabbing him once and if you get SPD'd then next time just jump away).
Simply put, practice on keeping that Rusky bastard out! If he gets a knockdown on you then it will be difficult to get out. In that situation, being patient and not trying random things will go a long way. Just watch his patterns and look for your escape. Back LK or back MK are good moves to use to either move quickly under him as he jumps or widen the gap. One more thing, on knockdown, some Giefs like to cross-up with jumping LK. Wait for him to be right above your head and either use Crouching Fierce to punish or use the Flash Kick. Even if the Flash Kick whiffs and you end up going the opposite direction you get out of his mix up and at least end up with the opportunity to put some distance between you two. That's about all I can think of. Hope it helps!
If the CPU or other opponent is able to grab you in the middle of you combo, it suggests a few things:
Bad Combo Choice
It could be you are just using a bad combo which isn't pushing the grappler far enough away. For example, if you are finishing off with Guile's target combo (say a jump in attack then the target combo, pretty useless, but sets up the example), then you might be in a range where Zangief could grab you with say, the LP Spinning Pile Driver (which has a range of 1.65, I believe the move with largest throw range in the game).
However, this is more than likely not the source of the error. Most combos are not going to keep you close enough (unless there are some bad corner situations, but even then, there should be some pushback) where this can happen.
Incorrect Execution of Chain/Link/Cancel in Combo
The more likely scenario, this can happen for two reasons. Both of them cause either a window to open up, either because of frame-disadvantage or because of inaction.
The first is you might actually be using the wrong move, a move that simply doesn't cancel/chain/link. In this case, even if you are activating the moves one after another, you are creating a frame-disadvantage which allows the grappler a way to grab you.
The second is in your execution. If you don't execute your link/chain/cancel correctly, you open up a window or frame-disadvantage to be grabbed.
With Guile (or other projectile characters) against grapplers (especially the likes of Zangief), your strategy should be one that utilizes the fact that he has a long-range game (this applies to most projectile vs. non-projectile characters) and the fact that Zangief's options at long range are limited.
This means creating distance between you and him and maintaining that distance through projectiles (at least at far range).
When doing this, you can expect a number of things. The first is a neutral jump over the Sonic Booms. When your opponent does this, it's a reset situation.
He can also jump forward over the Sonic Booms. This is not a reset sitation. However, the Sonic Boom has much better recovery than most projectile characters (because you "pay" the price in charging); his recovery at worst is 39 frames for the Sonic Boom EX, and at best it is 31 frames with the jab Sonic Boom. Compare that to Sagat at 39 and 44 for high and low Tiger Shots respectively, and 45 for Ryu's fireball. That gives you the advantage in terms of reacting to when grapplers jump in over the Sonic Boom. The opportunity to punish you is less than with other projectile characters.
The next is the Spinning Lariat. Technically, this doesn't cause a reset situation because he can move forward while spinning through the Sonic Boom which helps to close the gap. However, from long-range, I wouldn't say this changes the situation dramatically (of course, accumilated over time, it can make a difference).
The thing to be most cautious of is the Green Hand. At mid to close range it can be very dangerous because a well-timed one can possibly hit you, and at the least put you on the defensive. At long range, it can definitely move Zangief into mid-range, at which point the danger he represents jumps tremendously.
The benefit that pretty much everyone has against the Green Hand is that it has horrible frame-disadvantage. Only the EX version doesn't put Zangief at frame-disadvantage, but that's only when he hits with it. All other versions put him at frame-disadvantage on hit or block.
With all of this in mind, you should be able to improve your long-range game against grapplers in general, as well as tighten up your combos when grapplers are the most dangerous, at close range.
